Wednesday, March 14, 2007

Public Atheism

This is great, finally a US congressman has the balls to admit that he is an atheist. That congressman would be Rep. Pete Stark from Fremont, a local Bay Area city. Anywhere else in the western world, this would not be much of a news item, but given the general religiosity of the US, and the prejudices that atheists struggle against, this is relatively big news. If Pete Stark were not a long standing congressman (18 terms), in a heavily Democratic urban area, his chances of re-election after this declaration would be nil. The balance in the US is seriously skewed, to the point that many people believe that atheists are immoral by their very nature. This, despite the fact that many of humanities greatest crimes have been perpetrated by deeply religious people. Even Hitler on occasion used the guise of Christianity and Catholicism to justify national socialism. Morality really has nothing to do with religion - the universal tenets of love, kindness, and justice apply whether one is a believer or not.

This argument has been of great interest to me lately. I've just finished Richard Dawkin's book, The God Delusion, although I admire his stand and I largely agree with his reasoning, I have never quite made the jump from agnostic to atheist. I suspect his book is aimed at people like me, people who are on the fence, but don't believe in any way in a personal god, and have a deep respect for natural selection, and its inherent meaning and beauty. In fact, my sister bought it for my Christmas present (yes I see both the irony and the contradiction), saying it had my name written all over it.

I was brought up in a pretty religious (but very tolerant) family, although that was not unusual in the Ireland of the time. Everyone was, in appearance at least, religious; however, I never bought it. From a pretty young age, I thought it was all a little ridiculous, childish, and superstitious. As a child, I never really got why God, this all powerful being who created everything, needed us to pray to him. That would be like the cloned sheep, Dolly, praying to the scientists who created her. I know religion is more complex than just that, but every time I examined the logic of religion, it just tied itself up in knots. The truth is, I never found any meaning in it - at least any meaning that I could have found elsewhere, outside of religion. It all seemed like so much theater, but as history has proved, it was dangerous theater. The least of its sins was that it crippled Ireland's maturation as a country, and the biggest was that as an institution, it was complicit in the worst criminal activity - sexual abuse of children.*

At the end of the day, while I can't really believe anything that the major religions espouse, most of all the core belief of a personal God, I haven't quite made the jump to outright atheism. I like the comedian Bill Maher's take - he believes in a supreme being, but doesn't feel the need for a giant bureaucracy between him and it. I'll settle for that for now, although every day I edge closer to the precipice. Ultimately in the interest of our survival as a species, I think atheists making themselves more visible in society is a good thing. Some hard scientific logic would not go astray in these days of fundamentalism, spin, and deception.

*My father always points out that without the religious orders, most Irish children would never have been educated, as the state just didn't have the resources in the early and mid 20th century. Credit where credit is due, but, and it's a biggie, Irish society abdicated oversight of education, and as a result many children suffered both physical and sexual abuse. Religion is just like any other form of power, unchecked it runs rampant over the weak.

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9 Comments:

Blogger Sam, Problem-Child-Bride said...

This is a cracking post. I say that because I share your views, but also because you do a great job laying it all out.

I believe in a God of sorts, a Creator, who meant for us to use our God-given reason to sort out the facts from the fairy stories about virgin births and literal interpretations of holy books.

I don't believe in a personal God who is listening to every 14 year-old Texan girl's prayers to make the cheer-leading squad.

I do believe Bill Maher to be brilliant and brave.

4:22 PM  
Blogger John Mc said...

Thanks Sam.

No matter how much I would like to, I can't believe in the simplistic world view that all religions espouse. They cannot seem to keep up with scientific discovery, and at their worst disavow science in favor of biblical mumbo jumbo - creationism etc. It's hard believe that people still hold tight to a Middle Ages view of creation, despite our advances.
The only one that keeps up is Buddhism and I'm not really sure that qualifies as a religion, more a philosophy or a framework to understand life.
I'd like to believe there is something else, but that could be conditioning. I do agree with Dawkin's view that God should be held up to the same rational analysis as any other arena, and that the whole argument that God is above science and creation is just an out for religion and theologians.

10:27 AM  
Blogger Mairéad said...

I'm reading Dawkins at the moment. I keep feeling that he's trying to convert me to atheism, he doth protest too much. I don't like to be pressurised into believing or into not believing. My feelings mirror yours except that I believed implicity in the fairy tales as a child. I'm sitting beside you on the fence now, but I hate, hate, hate the massive and seemingly endemic abuse of power and children that has been uncovered. It is this that'll make me jump off the fence and feck off into the sunset.

4:35 PM  
Blogger The Hangar Queen said...

Wha?? You mean we were supposed to take all that seriously? Somewhere between First Comm. and Confirm.I came to the conclusion that they have GOT to be taking the piss.

I just cannot give any credence to the distant,remote,lonely and joyless God that was beaten (yes,beaten) into us.

Faith is one thing but religon is a human construct and therefore inherently flawed.

As a secular,liberal humanist every time I see a plane in the sky,operate a computer,see a space launch,take the pills that are transforming me,fire up the iPod or read a book I regard them as a victory for the rational world.

Having said that I don't worship technology. I am frequently moved to tears by the sheer beauty of the world we live in and I have been fortunate in seeing quite a bit of it.Some have accused me of substituting a love of nature for religon and they completely miss the point.There are none so blind as those who choose not to see and it's fucking well hard to see anything shivering and shaking on your knees whispering into the dark.
Sorry....I didn't mean to get off on a figary there but I have a lot to say on this topic and maybe a post is needed.

12:48 AM  
Blogger Bock the Robber said...

John, isn't atheism a form of belief like any other?

You know: I believe there is no God!

Personally, I tend to be an agnostic: I don't know and I don't care.

2:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With little input from a non-atheist/agnostic point-of-view, I'm willing to contribute a bit to this discussion. Reasoning "religion" into a man is like reasoning anything to a toddler...pointless and doomed from the start. So please see this as my simple (although possibly long) explanation for why I believe there is a God.

Human beings have a standard code of ethics that we hold to be truth. Not exactly the same for all, but mostly the same (stealing, killing, lying, cheating, etc. are wrong)for all cultures, past & present. And if a man has been caught doing one, he usually tries denying it or justifying it. But confirming there's wrong means to confirm there's right, and how can we have right or wrong if we don't all agree to a similar code for all mankind? And how the hell did mankind comeup with this "Law of Nature", and if we came up with it, why would we invent rules so hard for us to keep?

This "Law of Nature" or "Moral Law" is the something within us that helps us decide between two conflicting instincts in any given situation, not that either instinct is good or bad, but rather more appropriate at a given time. The impulses that lead to stealing, killing, cheating, lying,etc. are not bad or wrong, just expressed at the wrong time in the wrong context. Those same impulses could easily lead to saving someone from some sort of harm.

And although I do believe we have physically evolved, our morals have not evolved over time. Evolution doesn't mean just change, but change for the better...progress.

So we have this set of Moral Laws that we feel pressing upon us at all times making us feel imperfect because we can't keep these laws! Yet, how can we feel imperfect, without a standard of perfection?

To me, this standard is what I call God. (Except, as I learn more about God, He has become more than that to me.)

Christianity is actually a very liberal way of thinking. Atheists believe that the point of religion is wrong. Period. Christianity allows you the freedom to see some degree of truth in almost any religion.

Now, why Christianity, not Hinduism other New Age philosophies? God might have created this universe and all it's inhabitants, but He cannot BE the universe. The universe is full of evil, and a perfect God who has placed in us a Moral Law and has instilled in us a desire to choose to do the right thing cannot be evil or even part evil.

And religion to me doesn't seem simple. In fact denying there is a God seems to me the simplest choice to make. Taking on a set of beliefs is a very complex matter. It usually involves self-examination, studying of a religious manual, self-control and/ or self-denial, but all leading to a fuller life than prior to a "religious experience". Religion isn't something that was invented by God or man. It is just the revelation of "unalterable facts about His (God's) own nature." (C.S.Lewis)

God is anything but "distant, remote,lonely and joyless". I feel sorry for anyone who was raised to believe this or hasn't found a way to experience a god beyond this description. And not sorry as in some sort of judgmental way, but sorry in a way that makes me want to hug each of you!

Religions are flawed and irrational many times. God is flawless and completely rational. Religion doesn't make a human being perfect. But I don't put my trust in human beings for salvation, just God. God never promised anyone a pain-free, justice-filled life, but only a source for comfort for those very painful, unjust moments in our lives.

And before you all begin to judge me, I have looked at most of your bios and share very similar interests with you all. I'm married with two little ones of my own, am passionate about music (even love listening to "atheists" artists, like Conor Oberst), and am an avid reader and NPR listener. I've studied science and philosophy (neurophilosophy does exist), yet enjoy reading the Bible more than any other book. I've got to say "Jane Eyre" is a very close second.

And I happen to know one of you very well.

"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." —Albert Einstein

11:58 PM  
Blogger John Mc said...

Mairead

Yup Dawkins tone can be annoying and he does seem to be trying to "convert" people to atheism. He is a fundamentalist in his own way.

Devin

I know what you mean although the Catholicism I was brough up in was generally kind and loving, I was a Jesuit schoolboy and they take a much more intellectual approach that the Christian Brothers!

Bock

I actually tend towards your way, but Dawkins point is that by being on the fence, we are facilitating the fundamentalists because we do not use the political power that our numbers give us. One of his points is that according to the census there are way more agnostics / atheists than there are Jews, but the Jews have greater political power because they have cultural unity.

Anonymous

Welcome. I wish you weren't anonymous, and I am curious as to why you make a point of stating that you know one of us very well, but still choose to conceal your identy. Regardless, thanks for making your point a discussion is worthless without an opposing view. Being a little hungover after Paddy's day I will need time to digest before I comment fully. However I do not agree that our moral code comes from God. It evolved, because it was neccessary for our survival. Every tribe develops rules around murder, property, cleanliness, food and sexual behaviour for this reason. It simply makes sense to do so. Killing your neighbor can lead to fueds that destroy your tribe, shagging your neigbors wife or your sister have obvious negative consequences etc etc I think God gets tacked on afterwards to ensure obedience.
I agree, Christianity at its core is a very liberal and enlightened way of looking at things. But like all religions once it becomes formalised and rules driven this gets lost. The biggest problem is the complete inability to change. Relgion seems unable to keep up with scientific discovery and has almost always fought it every step of the way. This has enabled the most fundamentalist version to come to the core in the U.S.
While I appreciate your argument, I don't feel it in any way proves there is a god. Its simply your personal opinion / experience.

BTW your Einstein quote gives the wrong impression of Einsteins views. He stated on multiple occasions, (and was publicly censured by several churches), that he in now way believed in a personal god. This alone puts him in direct opposition to every religion there is - and in direct contradicition with your view. Dawkins does a great job on discussing Einsteins view in his book, and I highly recommend his book to you, not to convince you but his is a very reasoned argument. For someone of faith it will really help them understand the opposing view.

1:15 PM  
Blogger Johnny said...

Old Congressman Pete Stark…of 35 years plus in Congress is not only an atheist, but he is just an 'old fart' so to speak who wants to piss off the world. He rants and raves at his constituents and is not a nice guy…he's not a "poster child" that any organization would want to represent them…atheists or otherwise. Check out where he denigrated a constituent who just returned from an overseas deployment to Kosovo…the soldier wrote his congressman (Pete Stark) and got this angry insulting voicemail back. (See the link to the Fox News video below).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djeGqNVXjZE

9:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

an agnostic is a fool who beleives in his own ego
an atheist is an egotistic fool

6:15 AM  

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